Disagreeing with your Boss

I would imagine there were times, though, at the State Department where you felt there were perhaps certain policies that ran counter to your own principles or your own beliefs, because like you say, you come into the job with eyes wide open knowing that there will be things that you disagree with. So were there instances where you felt like your principles were tested and how did you deal with that?

I think you're always going to find that. And I certainly found it even the first time I was in government back in the early 2000s and up through 2011, the first time I was in. There were instances there as well, where there were things I didn't agree with. And I thought that this was a real challenge. I think when you confront these, though, the key to it is humility. And to understand that other people have different ideas and to figure out how you can voice your view in a constructive way to try to advance the decision for the administration, for the country and for the outcome that you want.

Has that always worked or have there been times when it hasn't worked so well?

It works sometimes, not all the time. You win some you lose some bets and you know that going in. And when you lose them, what do you do? What do you do? You go home and lick your wounds and you return the next day. This is also about resilience. You know, you come back and you say, OK, that one didn't go the way I wanted it to go. I'm going to gear up for the next one.