One of the Guys

Your background at all these tech companies and then being often the only woman senior leader in the tech role there, is interesting to me because I think it's a challenge that still a lot of women, particularly in tech, face. Were there moments when you felt there was bias against you because you were a woman, and it could be conscious bias or unconscious bias, how did you deal with that?

The phrase unconscious bias in my world did not come into the vernacular until probably 2008, 2009. So, I didn't even know it was unconscious bias. I didn't understand what this concept meant. But what I did know is I had to work harder and I had to prove myself in ways that my peers didn't have to, my male peers didn't have to. So, I guess I should be grateful. It gave me just an incredible work ethic. And I think I learned a lot more because I pushed a lot harder, but what I realized was growing up, surrounded by men I was learning all of the male behaviors. So, I was dressing like a man. I was talking like a man, I was swearing like a man. I was being aggressive in meetings like men and I soon came to see again, the more senior I got those strategies that worked so well for men did not work well for me.

And suddenly I was starting to get the feedback of, hey, listen, your style you probably need to soften it a bit. You're far too ambitious. You need to really tone it down. I was getting all of that kind of feedback. And that was when I said, okay, this strategy of like trying to outman the men isn't working because all of that bias, unconscious or otherwise started to come in because I'm a woman. And when I act like a man, I get criticized. And I don't know that the men who were giving me the feedback actually recognized it as unconscious bias because the same behaviors in a man would have been, wow, look at that rising star. Look at that risk taker. He's assertive. So assertive, they would use all of this you know agentic language around those behaviors for a man, but they wouldn't use those same kinds of phrases and they didn't for me. So, really just embracing the fact that I am a woman and really trying to lean into those female characteristics that could bring tremendous differentiation as a female leader.